Abide: Isaiah 13-14; 24-30; 35

Richard Bushman once told me that panic precedes revelation. Dr. Bushman was discussing the process by which Joseph Smith received the first vision. We're calling the line from the Pearl of Great Price that at that moment of great alarm, the Father and Son appeared to the boy prophet. While reading Isaiah though I think the same can be said for Isaiah. He lived in difficult times with wars, rumors of wars, and the horrors that accompany them. How did he care for his people? How do his revelations affect Latter-day Saints today? We'll discuss that and much more on today's episode of Abide: a Maxwell Institute podcast. My name is Joseph Stuart. I'm the public communication specialists in the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship at Brigham Young University. Kristian Heal is a research fellow at the Institute. And each week we will discuss the week’s block of reading from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Come, Follow Me curriculum. We aren't here to present a lesson but rather to hit on a few key themes from the scripture block, so as to help fulfill the Maxwell Institute's mission to inspire and fortify Latter-day Saints in their testimonies of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and engage the world of religious ideas.

Joseph Stuart: Today, we are once again joined by Julia Evans, one of our research assistants, who is pursuing a degree in linguistics and preparing to attend law school. Before joining our research team in the Maxwell Institute, Julia worked at the MTC for a year as a Norwegian teacher and then as a training supervisor. Currently, she's involved in undergraduate research in several areas of linguistics and a strong interest in religion and philosophy. Welcome back, Julia.

Julia Evans: Thank you! Excited to be here.

Stuart: And we are thrilled to have you here. Now, Kristian, with Isaiah, there's so much to dig into. What are you thinking about today as we look at this second week of instruction of Isaiah?

Kristian Heal: As we read through the book of Isaiah, we’re not only seeking the message of this prophetic book, but also trying to understand what Prophets do. One way to think about this question is in relation to the horizons of God's concern. In the first 12 chapters of Isaiah, God's message has been directed towards his covenant people in the kingdom of Judah. But in Isaiah chapters 13-23, God's concern broadens to include Israel's neighbors, beginning with Babylonia and the Babylonian king, and then moving on to the Philistines, Moab, Damascus, the Ethiopians, Egypt, Babylonia again, Edom, Arabia, and finally closer to home, pronouncements against Jerusalem and the Phoenicians. We find similar pronouncements in Jeremiah 46-51, and Ezekiel 25-32, and the Book of Amos at the beginning, and Obadiah. The character of these pronouncements are deeply poetic prophetic warnings of God's impending judgment against the nations as well as occasional promises of peace and comfort. The warnings and promises have an anchored temporal polyvalence. That's to say that they can apply to numerous times and places, according to the interpretive framework in place, but are anchored in an ancient setting, even if that specific setting is sometimes hard to identify for modern scholars. The theological implication is that God's prophet speaks to the whole earth, because Jehovah is not just the God of Israel, not just one god among many, but has sovereignty over all the nations as the God of creation and the Holy One of Israel. This also suggests that these nations understood a kind of natural Divine Law and are judged for not heading it. Now, as John Goldingay says in chapters 24-27, “The canvas broadens Further still, to embrace the whole world, and indeed, the entire cosmos, the heavens and the earth, supernatural as well as earthly powers, and a purpose that brings all these things to their consummation. Once again, the prophecies combined disaster and renewal, though with more explicit and systematic potential to renewal.” This section is often called the “Apocalypse of Isaiah.” Here the Prophet declares harsh judgment and a message of hope for the world. The section lacks any temporal anchoring that describes a period of destruction that will devastate the world as a whole. In fact, the catastrophe will affect not only the heavens and the earth, but “the cosmic powers” Goldingay says elsewhere. This section is thought by scholars to come from a later period in Israel's history, perhaps Josiah’s reign, perhaps following the Babylonian exile. Chapters 28-33, are often assigned by scholars to the reign of Hezekiah, so the late eighth and early seventh century BCE, hence we're once again back in the world of the people of Israel and the kingdom of Judah. These chapters include a series of oracles that are introduced by the Hebrew interjection “oy” translated in the King James version as Whoa. The objective of this usage is to grab the listeners attention to, as Walter Brueggemann says, “Place the listening community in jeopardy so that they are more attentive to the will of the Lord.” Bad things are going to happen if you don't listen up. The section ends with two chapters describing, as Margaret Sweeney says, the rise of a royal savior, together with the downfall of the oppressors of the people. Chapters 34-35 anticipate the recovery of Jerusalem and the glad return of exiles from deportation and so anticipate the sentiments that we find beautifully expressed in chapter 40 and following. This is a message for those in the Babylonian exile, weeping by the waters of Babylon for the loss of Zion, rather than for Hezekiah, who was miraculously saved from the Assyrian destruction, as is described in chapters 36-39. The great message of the book of Isaiah is thus the impending destruction and scattering of Israel for not adhering to their covenant obligations, followed by the marvelous work and wonder of the miraculous gathering and return of God's ancient covenant people. This story of loss and return, scattering and gathering, judgment and redemption, is the essence of God's message to his people, both ancient and modern. The work of Isaiah is to tell the story in a way that it applies to God's people repeatedly, over their successive periods of scattering and gathering. Remember, however, that God's horizons are global and cosmic. Whenever he seems to be doing something small and simple, we can be assured that great things will come to pass. For us, the Christian reading of this story is fulfilled in the life and work of Jesus Christ, both in the meridian of time, and in the end times, filling the Hebrew phrase, the Yom Haku ,in that day, with messianic hope, and eschatological expectation.

Stuart: When you say that it reminds me of Dr. Martin Luther King's final sermon that he delivered in front of Memphis sanitation workers saying that he had been to the mountaintop and that he saw a future in which justice would roll like waters down a hill. Now, Kristian, something I've always been curious about is we're looking at the historical context and thinking about Isaiah speaking to the people of Israel, but he's also looking at the well-being, the future, as well as the current status of other nations. Why is that?

Heal: It is interesting that we find in a book of scripture directed to the kingdom of Judah, directed to Israel, directed to Israel's sort of loss, and redemption, this series of oracles directed to other nations. Describing in many cases, their destruction at the hands of the Assyrians, or the Babylonians destruction at the hands of the Medes. So, judgments against these nations surrounding Israel, what's going on here? I like John Goldingay’s response to this phenomenon, and his response is to suggest nine possible answers to this question. And this seems like a lot. But it allows us to realize that there are multiple ways of viewing what's going on here. So we'll go through these, I think it's a useful way of kind of reflecting on this phenomenon of these chapters, chapters 13-23 in Isaiah. Firstly, he says, “declaring Yahweh is words of blessing and trouble puts Yahweh’s will into effect.” So I think what he's saying here is that prophecy is an act of creation, declaring God's will is part of the process of enacting God's will, it’s helping to bring it about, it's “opening the doors” as it were. And the doors of history turn on small hinges, and these prophecies start those hinges moving, turning the great doors of change. Secondly, Goldingay says, “The destiny of other peoples is relevant to God's people.” So, God's covenant people can be comforted by the fact that God is aware and responding to the actions of their neighbors, even though it’s a call to chasten these people are not free of blame for that work. So we think of the work of the Assyrians are the work of the Babylonians, chastening a Israel and Judah that have gone astray. But these chapters are not simply about retribution, but also about God's concern for all of his children. My most sacredly held belief, I think, is that God loves His children, and is constantly working for their benefit and welfare. It might not always seem like this as we look around in the world. But one day, I think, when we get to see the history of the world from the beginning to the end, as the prophets have seen it, I think we will finally understand that particular great mystery.

Stuart: I think it's important to remember that while Israel is God's chosen people, that doesn't mean that he doesn't love all of his children. Really, if we think about it, we are all God's chosen people because he chose to create us, he chose to have responsibility for us through the atonement of His Son. And to see ourselves as a group separate from others, I think in a way can demarcate people who are worthy of blessing people who are worthy of cursing. And we don't generally tend to identify as people who deserve cursing.

Heal:  Yeah, that's really good. I think this sort of creating of boundaries, these ways in which we kind of less than the other through these processes. Those barriers are being broken down here, I think in these chapters. The third thing that Goldengay points out is that knowing God's intentions gives people a chance to align their will with Yahweh’s. So there's a certain rhetorical flair to these prophecies, sometimes disturbingly, so, as when the Eastern conquerors of Babylonia are described in chapter 13. “Their bows both shattered the young”, the scripture says, “they shall show no pity to infants, they shall not spare the children.” These are disturbing lines, but they seem to be disturbing for a rhetorical purpose, to give people a chance to align their will with God's. So, as with Jonah's preaching in Nineveh, God's purpose in sending His prophets is change. And God is ready to change his intentions, if people will turn and align their will with His. And it may be, as we read through these, for example, that the destruction of certain cities that weren't destroyed was not fulfilled because of a change in those people we just don't know at this point in our sort of view of the world. The fourth reason Goldingay says is that giving the reasons for the judgment, mainly the nation’s power and majesty, is instructive for God's people regarding their own destiny. What does he mean by this? Sometimes, it feels like the forces reigned against us are overwhelming, like the tiny kingdom of Judah, surrounded by empires, we can feel that our own lives mean nothing by comparison. These warnings turn such a view on its head. Listen to the poignant image that is depicted in chapter 14 of Shale, stirring itself, to receive the proud and mighty of the Babylonian Empire.

Evans: “Shale below was a seer to greet you're coming rousing for you the shades of all Earth chieftains raising from the thrones, all the kings of nations all speak up and say to you, so you have been stricken as we were, you have become like us. Your pomp is brought down to shale and the strains of your loots, worms are to be your bed maggots your blanket.”

Heal: So if God is able to humble empires, then surely he can preserve and sustain his covenant people both ancient and modern. Part of the gifts of these oracles is perspective. This is hard in the moment when everything seems weighted against us, but the ultimate victory is rarely won by those who wield the most power. This reminds me of the lovely poem Ozymandias by Percy Shelley.

Evans: ““I met a traveler from an antique land who said, “two vast and trustless legs of stone sand in the desert. Near them on the sand, half sunk a shattered village lies whose frown and wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command held that its sculptor well, those passions read, which yet survive stamped on these lifeless things. The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed. And on the pedestal these words appear.” My name is Ozymandias king of kings, look on my works ye mighty and despair, Nothing beside remains round the decay of that colossal wreck, boundless and bear the lone and level sands stretch far away.””

Heal: So Goldengay continues talking about the nation's helps build people raise their eyes, and see that God has a big purpose in the world. That part of this purpose surely is helping the poor and the needy, the displaced refugee, those who suffer because of the pride of their leaders. To such the Lord declares at the end of chapter 14, and what will he answer the message of any nation, that Zion has been established by the Lord in it, the needy of his people shall find shelter. So by addressing the nations, the book of Isaiah raises Israel's vision to see itself not as a tiny nation oppressed by empires, but as the people of the Holy One of Israel, with the ability to teach and comfort and console the nations

Stuart: I think in some ways, and this is number six and Goldengay’s list. It encourages God's people not to be overawed by other peoples or be afraid of them. In the words of a favorite hymn and as President Hinckley continually reminded us, “Do what is right, let the consequence follow, Stand a little taller, do a little better, because it doesn't matter what they can do. It matters what God can do.”

Heal: Yeah, that's lovely, because we often find ourselves in situations where it's possible to be simply overawed, as goldingay said overawed by the kind of the odds that are against us. And this sense, this fear is a powerful motivator, most often motivating us to submit and to conform. We don't want to stand out or stand up, to stand for something, as President Hinckley reminded us again and again, especially against stronger forces. These oracles remind us that the cosmic balance is actually always tipped in our favor. Those who are with us are greater than those who are arrayed against us. So Goldengay’s seventh point is that these oracles encourage God's people, not to set out to emulate the other nations. So it is natural to want to be like those who seem to have all the power and prestige, to become convinced that there's something about their way of life that grants them all these wonderful privileges. And part of the reason I think that the Babylonian king is mocked, so mercilessly in chapter 14 is precisely to respond to such thinking. We need to stop trying to be like those who seem to have power and privilege and instead, follow the one who is all powerful.

Stuart: Or really, in thinking about it another way and Goldengay’s number eight, it encourages God's people not to rely on other powers. We continually reference President Kimball's sermon False Gods We Worship, thinking about how much we try to rely on the things that we can see, the powers that we understand that exist in the world that we can experience, and that others can witness our experience, if that makes sense. The things that aren't just the whisperings of the Holy Ghost that are personal, but that other people recognize as images of power or sources of power as well.

Heal: And if I remember rightly, one of the things he was particularly concerned about was arms, the arms race at that time, and sort of thinking about these kinds of massive national powers that were arraying themselves on the earth.

Stuart: Yeah, unfortunately, Israel's kings didn't learn this lesson very often, nor the Israelites in general, they always wanted something to be able to have in front of them, something tangible to remind them of their relationship to a power beyond what they can see.

Heal: So Goldengay’s final point about why we have this series of oracles in the book of Isaiah, is this: “the notes of hope for the nation's encouraged God's people not to take too negative attitudes towards other nations.” And here we find that issue, which I think is a great temptation for those of us who have entered into covenants with God, and that is to feel that we're somehow special, more special than others of God's children. The end of Chapter 19 is an extended message of hope, directed to Egypt and Assyria, the two superpowers in Isaiah’s lifetime, that emerges like the dawn piercing through the darkness, surrenders is by prophecies of so much distraction. These lines are a reminder that God loves all of His children, and his working for their welfare. Here is a bit from Isaiah 19:21: “For the Lord will make Himself known to the Egyptians, and the Egyptians shall acknowledge the Lord in that day, and they shall serve him with sacrifice and oblation and shall make vows to the Lord and fulfill them. And the Lords of hosts will bless them saying, bless it be My people, Egypt, my handiwork, Assyria, and my very own Israel.” Notice the possessive pronoun used here, my people Egypt, my handiwork is Syria, because we used to only God, talking about my people Israel. So as Christians, as Latter-day Saints, our message is one of hope to the world. We are to be a light to the world to love the world to care for the world and always remember, and be guided by the fact that God loves the world so much, that he gave his only Son to save it.

Stuart: Yeah somehow when we think of God being on our side, we don't turn to love the people that he loves. We think about how God must hate the people that we hate. And to combine thoughts from Howard Thurman and Kurt Vonnegut, one of the greatest sins that we can commit is to create a God who hates people who don't look like us. Now Kristian, moving forward. We're in this section in chapters 24-27 that are often called the apocalypse of Isaiah. What are some of the big takeaway messages here?

Heal: So this section has been called an apocalypse because it contains imagery of cosmic destruction and renewal associated with apocalyptic writings such as the book of Revelation, that’s John Collins in his introduction to the Old Testament. However, this is not an apocalypse in the strict sense of the term. For starters, it doesn't have the literary form of an apocalypse, which is usually defined as a genre of revelatory literature with a narrative framework in which a revelation is mediated by an otherworldly being to a human recipient. That’s to say, the apocalypse normally has somebody guided by a Heavenly Messenger being shown a vision of destruction that will lead to some future ending of glory, for either that person individually or for their entire people. There's no guide here, in the book of Isaiah. There is in Nephi, his vision in First Nephi 11 to 14, and that's often called an apocalyptic vision, according to this definition. There’s a Heavenly Messenger. There's a description of the end times, there's an interface between earthly and heavenly worlds. We should note that there is some variation within this yonder, and scholars argue about the definition. Even though it seems that most scholars are reluctant to consider these chapters of Isaiah, as a clear example of the apocalyptic genre. Instead, the book of Daniel, which we'll cover soon, is the Bible's clearest example of apocalyptic writing. But the genre had a rich life in later Jewish, Christian, and Islamic literature's. All three traditions were and are deeply interested in the End Times.

Stuart: Yeah, I'm thinking about former Maxwell Institute fellow named Christopher Blythe, who wrote a book called Terrible Revolutions, thinking about how Latter-day Saints and those from the Latter-day Saint movement have thought about the end times. And I guess I'm not sure, why doesn't this totally function as an apocalypse? Is there a better word that fits this genre?

Heal: Yeah, it seems that it's all these chapters, eschatological. They're concerned about end times, John Goldengay comes to our aid here, he's a biblical scholar who are really enjoying your purpose. I mentioned him a number of times, he says, These chapters refer to the final and ultimate future fulfillment of God's purpose for the world, involving a dramatic transformation brought about by God, and not by any human initiative or involving any human contribution. He clarifies this a little bit further, they don't imply an end after which there will be nothing or after which there will be life in heaven rather than on Earth. Rather, God's original creation purpose will be fulfilled, and the world will be able to enjoy a full human life. These chapters then are about the frustration and ultimate fulfillment of God's purposes, not only for Israel, but for the entire world. The opening of chapter 24 suggests that God has a covenant relationship with the world as a whole. So this is a new idea. We're used to thinking about God's covenant people, as Israel, or in modern times, Latter-day Saints look to the covenant path and to the covenants that we make. But here suggests that there is a covenant with the entire world, and that God is acting with respect to this covenant in the world. And Isaiah 24:5-6 it says, “For the earth was defiled under his inhabitants, because they transgress teachings violated laws, broke the ancient covenant. That is why a curse consumes the earth, and its inhabitants pay the penalty.” So the assumption here seems to be that the world has a covenant relationship with God based one could argue on there being created in His image and likeness. I think that this is the covenant of conscience, the moral compass that seems innate in all humanity, and that can either be cultivated or suppressed. And these chapters proceed antiphonally, there’s this sort of, you've got a call and response, with hymns woven between prophecy, John Goldengay teases these voices apart. And it's useful to have these divisions in mind as we read through these chapters. So you have the prophecy of world devastation in 24:1-13. And this is followed by a response from him in 24:14-16. And then the prophecy of cosmic devastation, and 24:17-23, is followed by another response him in 25:1-5. And the prophecy of world renewal and judgment in 25: 6-12, elicits this long response to him in 26:1-18. The section then ends with a prophecy of world renewal and judgment in chapter 26:19 through 27:13.

Stuart: I confess that when I think about Isaiah, I don't necessarily think about the renewal aspects of this relationship of this call and response. Are there a few examples of the prophecies of worldly renewal that stick out to you as particularly insightful or lovely?

Heal: Well, I tend to like the nice bit of Isaiah, this one of comforting bits, right? The comfort, that we're waiting for chapter 4 to comfort you, My people, but there are some sort of highlights. There's some lovely moments. In the meantime, chapter 25:9, for example, “in that day they shall say, this is our God, we trusted in him, and he delivered us. This is the Lord in whom we trusted. Let us rejoice and exult in his deliverance.” But these are not fairweather sentiments. Rather, this is the hardwon faith of those who have trusted in the face of adversity. And I think the value of these chapters is precisely in their sense of foreboding, and the confidence of the faithful in the face of darkness, doom and destruction. And these are not being as limited to the end times, of course. Throughout our lives we all have periods of darkness and doom loss and mourning change, and concern, there will be death and illness, anxiety, depression, failure and loss. And sometimes it will feel like we're living through constant turmoil.

Stuart: I don't even know what you're talking about Christian, what would it feel like to feel like we're living through constant turmoil?

Heal: This is sort of captured wonderfully in Isaiah 24:19-20, very sort of evocatively, “the Earth is breaking, breaking, the Earth is crumbling, crumbling, the Earth is tottering, tottering, the Earth is swaying like a drunkard, it is erupting to and fro like a hut, its iniquity shall wear down, and it shall fall to rise no more. But when the morning finally comes, and the shaking stops, and dawn breaks, then we can sing this hymn with a full heart, having passed through these trials, having passed through this darkness. And that day, we shall say, this is our God, we trusted in him, and he delivered us. This is the Lord in whom we trusted, let us rejoice, and exalt in his deliverance.”

Stuart: Thank you for that question. Something that I think about with prophecy as well is sort of the modern American usage, which is to think about it predicting the future, rather than an ancient Israelite perspective, which is to say, calling against injustice and calling upon God's judgment for us. Julia, this week, you dug into thinking about profit seeing the future, what did you discover when you looked at Isaiah 29?

Evans: Yes, this is a chapter that was interesting to me on my mission, when you were trying to teach about the Restoration of the gospel. And I've always been taught, you know, marvelous work and wonder that's, that's you, you know, that's the restoration and that Joseph Smith. It never really occurred to me that there's this polyvalence, as Dr. Heal just mentioned, going on in the scriptures, where Isaiah might be talking about, you know, Mount Sinai, and be speaking of Zion, Jerusalem, and then maybe also Salt Lake City, as a lot of prophets have mentioned. And so I went and looked through Isaiah 29, and tried to find evidence, kind of either way, for the Latter-day Saint interpretation, and then looked at also other commentaries. Particularly in verses 11-12. It mentions a sealed book, which is delivered to someone that's learned, and they see that they can't read it, because it's sealed. I’d always been taught that that was referring to the instance that Martin Harris has when he brings a portion of the translated Book of Mormon to Charles Anton, and he gives a certificate saying that the translation is valid. And then when he finds out that it was, Joseph had found the plates from an angel and that he couldn't read in the rest of the book, because it was sealed. He apparently rips up the translation, according to Martin Harris. And so that's sort of the Latter-day Saint view. And then other commentaries I read just went with the same pattern of spiritual darkness that's going to happen in the future, saying that people will try to understand Scripture and yearn for that and not really find answers. So I thought that both of those are valid and make sense to me.

Stuart: I think sometimes Latter-day Saints look at the Old Testament as purely speaking to our day, or speaking only to Latter-day Saints, not recognizing that there's a hubris to that, there's this sort of being full of ourselves that we think that this scripture that has done so much, not only for Christians, for Jews, for Muslims, but for people throughout the world, that everything has to apply in just the way that we're thinking about it. Now, I think that it's also important to remember these polyvalent meanings, these ideas that many things can apply from the same verse. And I'm curious if there are other scriptures throughout the Old Testament that similarly spoke to you as a Latter-day Saint to help you think about how the Old Testament should shape our religious lives today.

Evans: Yes, there are absolutely ones that have really spoken to me and most of them are about Jesus Christ. Specifically, I find those prophecies sort of the most compelling as far as seeing into the future sort or prophecy, although there are other sense of that word too. Some of my favorites are the one Dr. Heal just quoted in Isaiah 25:9. But I really love the verse eight it says, Jesus is what I believe is speaking about will swallow up death and victory. And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth, for the Lord had spoken it. So I love that. And then also in Hosea, it talks about redemption from death and the resurrection, and says, I will ransom them from the power of the grave, I will redeem them from death. Oh death, I will be thy plagues, oh grave, I will be that destruction, repentance shall be hid from my eyes.

Stuart: I also want to be clear that I don't think that it's a unique Latter-day Saint problem, or that it's a problem in general to think about Scripture speaking to us in the present. In fact, that's sort of the point of Scripture, in my opinion. But I do think that it's important for Latter-day Saints to recognize that God answers the prayers of all people, and that there is no one fixed meaning of a prophecy that can apply to all people in this regard, at least in most cases. And you were telling me about a story that really helped you understand prophecy. Can you tell us about that?

Evans: Yes, of course. Yeah. And one question I've had on my mind for the past, little while the past few months, at least, is just how does prophecy work? And what really is the role that prophets play in the world, and then also for members of the church or just in other faiths as well. I had the chance to travel a little bit a couple of weeks ago, and we were flying over the Grand Canyon. It was eventually I wasn't aware of this. But there was a woman on the plane, who was really excited to see the Grand Canyon and kept asking the flight attendant, where's the Grand Canyon, I'm so excited to see it. And eventually, the pilot did announce, so we're flying over the Grand Canyon, and like, look out your window, if you want. And so I did. I saw it took a couple of pictures, like that's cool. And the woman who's so excited to see it couldn't see out of her window from her seat. And so she came up near the front and wanted to look out my window, because it was really a nice view there. And so I said, Hey, please just come and look at them. By the time she got there. It was so sad. We had flown over it, so she couldn't see it. And it was just right out of preview. I probably like seconds away and so I said, Oh, okay, that's I'm so sorry, you didn't see it. It's actually it's just right there. I've pointed kind of the direction where it was. And then I also showed her the pictures I just taken on my phone. This is what it is. And I was surprised because I myself might have been disappointed. I didn't see it. But this woman she was so happy. It was as if she had seen it herself. And she's very happy thing to me went back to her seat. And then I went back to my thinking about the Old Testament and thought is that maybe I'll prophecy works? Is that what we sometimes experience when we want to see something and understand something but can't view it all the way for whatever reason? And there's someone else who if we trust them, we can have an experience as if we had seen that and known that for ourselves firsthand.

Stuart: I think that's a beautiful place for a stand today. Have a blessed week.

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